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Stefan Van Thienen
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
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 Posted: 02-11-2008 23:09:41 Post subject: Break-out time and disqualification |
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Hello,
On the EFC2009 the BFB-rules will be applyed witch are very similar to NAFA. We will ask every participating team to give a seeding time.
Each division’s break-out time will be one (1) second faster than the top team’s seed time. Except in Division 1, a team running more than one (1) second faster than the top team’s seed time will “breakout” of the division, will be declared the loser of the heat.We found that the NAFA-rule that "a team that breaks out three (3) times in a tournament is ineligible for any tournament placement" is too severe for a european championship.
The reason why is that it isn't simple for every team to give a time and it's also a tournament over three days. At EFC 2008 we have remain this rule but we have erase al the break-outs after the round robin, so every team got a new start at the double elimantion.  We want to hear from the european flyball scène what they tink about this problem, and when somebody have a great idee! SHOOT!  |
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berzerker
Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 3
Location: antwerpen
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| Posted: 04-11-2008 16:53:15 Post subject: Re: Break-out time and disqualification |
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| Stefan Van Thienen wrote: |
Hello,
At EFC 2008 we have remain this rule but we have erase al the break-outs after the round robin, so every team got a new start at the double elimantion. |
Because several break-outs during the RR were incorrectly noted as "NT" on the scoresheets, and therefore no-one could be sure who broke out, the tournament director decided it would be the fairest solution to reset the break-out counter, and the "3x break = no tournament placing"rule would be in efect for the DE and inform the captains during an extra briefing. |
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ray_lewis
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 3
Location: London
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| Posted: 04-11-2008 20:50:57 Post subject: |
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The break-out rule is there to ensure competitive racing within the divisions, by penalising teams who declare times slower than they should.
At an BFB/EFC style tournament (as opposed to the BFA tournaments us Brits are used to) the real tournament only starts with the Double Elimination. The preliminary rounds don't really count that much (other than to provide a means of fair seeding the DE bracket, and to give all the teams a minimum number of races).
If you aren't going to elimate teams from entering the DE stage after 3 break outs during the RR stage, then to me it hardly makes much sense to to count the number of break-outs during the RR stage at all - other than that the team breaking out loses that leg, of course.
Another approach might be to re-cast the divisions for the DE on the basis of the fastest times - (or possibly average times) during the RR stage. So a break-out during the RR would count as a loss, but the time would still be recorded - and that could bump the team up a division for the DE.
A radical thought, I know - but it should ensure competitive racing!
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Ray (& Bramble)
Wimbledon Whizzers Flyball Team |
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berzerker
Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 3
Location: antwerpen
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| Posted: 04-11-2008 23:26:28 Post subject: |
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| ray_lewis wrote: |
Another approach might be to re-cast the divisions for the DE on the basis of the fastest times - (or possibly average times) during the RR stage. So a break-out during the RR would count as a loss, but the time would still be recorded - and that could bump the team up a division for the DE.
A radical thought, I know - but it should ensure competitive racing! |
Setting the divisons by the results of the RR is very hard on the organisation, but can be done if need be.
The more serious problem with that is that some teams might "hold back" just enough to get into another division. I remember a tournament in Austria that used this format - out of nescecity, but it only brought on more arguments. I remember that in the past the BFB also toyed with this idea for their regular competition, but in the end rejected it, as it would set more problems than it would solve. |
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Yves
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
Location: France
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| Posted: 08-11-2008 10:01:41 Post subject: |
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Hello!
| Quote: |
| We want to hear from the european flyball scène what they tink about this problem, and when somebody have a great idee! SHOOT! |
a solution could be:if one team is break out during the RR stage it begins with one run handicap for the first race of the double elimination.and so on for all the races during the DE stage.it is certainly easier than to outstrip a team, no? |
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Stefan Van Thienen
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: 08-11-2008 20:15:06 Post subject: Maybe another idea |
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It's great to hear al the ideas, but it seems that a good aswer isn't very easy.
It's true that in the past BFB has already make the divisions after the RR.... and it's also true that teams hold back to have more change in a lower division.  Another problem with that solution is the administratif work. With 30 teams it isn't a very big problem, with the double of it, it's night-work! 
There was another idea ...When a team break-out, it lose noth only the heat but the whole race..of course the team have to run al the heats but al they got a no time for all the heats of that race. 
Especially in the double elimination it's becomming dangerous when a team break-out.  When you do it again in the next race..your out!.. . With that system you don't have to count the amount of break-outs for each team, they just lose the race .... So i think that there's less change to have mistakes.
It's just an idea!! |
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Yves
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
Location: France
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| Posted: 08-11-2008 21:36:52 Post subject: |
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When a team break-out, it lose noth only the heat but the whole race..of course the team have to run al the heats but al they got a no time for all the heats of that race.
Especially in the double elimination it's becomming dangerous when a team break-out. When you do it again in the next race..your out!.. . With that system you don't have to count the amount of break-outs for each team, they just lose the race .... So i think that there's less change to have mistakes.
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yes you are right.It is easier to manage for the organizers and for the teams! |
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